I had the opportunity to meet Rob Hines and Kim on Saturday and briefly discuss the subject of lifting the profile of the ARRAS and what can be done to ensure it's long term survival.
The subject was further to my reading that the ARRAS was struggling to keep going.
This Forum is probably as good a place as any, to start the debate going on how to save what should be the ultimate Rock and Roll marketing tool. With a name like " The Australian Rock & Roll Appreciation Society", I reckon it should be easy to promote our cause.
My first suggestion for debate, is that there should be more effort toward integrating all the forms of early Rock and Roll. Be it Rockabilly, Swing, or Classic Rock and Roll.
Rob verbally agreed that a lot of emphasis has been on Rockabilly and as such, I agreed by concluding that while Rockabilly music is exciting, youthfull and in a word, great stuff, it is still probably only 20% of the total Rock and Roll scene.
Lets get the debate going and see if we can generate some ideas that the ARRAS can take on board to re juvinate the Nation wide promotion of "ROCK & ROLL.
Just thought I'd put my two bobs worth in on this topic. I definately think ARRAS would benefit from promoting more "Rock n Roll' rather than the main focus of rockabilly.
I attended the Big Beat in November, and as some one very new on the Rock n Roll scene I must admit I was kinda disappointed and left after an hour. I am a big fan of the 50's and 60's rock n roll, so attending an "Australian Rock n Roll Appreciation Society" event I just assumed there would be a main focus on "Rock n Roll" not "Rockabilly".
I am not knocking the "Rockabilly" style of music, it's just not my scene. I was just dissappointed that there seemed to be a lack of the other styles. I guess I am talking about the music styles of artists such as:
Chuck Berry, Jackie Wilson, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, Gene Vincent, Ricky Nelson, Lloyd Price, Richie Valens, Paul Anka, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bill Hayley, Neil Sedaka, Eddie Cockran and the Everly Brothers... just to rattle off a few names. These were some of the artists who were dominating the charts in the Mid to Late 50's.
My Partner and I are beginner "Rock n Roll" dancer's and it's that style we venture out to listen to and hope to dance too. I think it would be Great to incorporate more of the type of music from the artists I mentioned - thats just my opinion. Anyway.. let the Debate begin! :P
Your observations raise some very interesting issues, particulalry as you are young and a newcomer to Classic Rock.
I hope that Forum members will respond to this post in an analytical and thoughtful manner.
Especialy taking into account that the writer does not have decades of involvement in Rock and its variants.
Cheeky and contemporaries are the future of our music and dance community. Looking at the concepts expressed in the posting how do we get them more involved in organsiations like Rock'n'Roll clubs, ARRAS and the VIctorian Rock'n'Roll Dance Association (VRRDA)?
Its a tuff one to contemplate, I see pretty much no younger persons coming in to the rock and roll and rockabilly scene.
What happens when the crop of existing older bands cease to play anymore, How many bands of young musos are out there playing elvis tunes ?
Most of the new bands are playing rockabilly and psychobilly, the kids generally like it harder and faster, certainly the case with my generation and the scene I grew up in.
Not really sure that an hour at Big Beat did the night justice in particular when 4 bands are playing, personally I think you missed some great bands by leaving after 1 hour cheeky.
I really dont know, I remember a time when the Arras crowd would lynch bands who did not play it exactly as the original artists had done it, there has to be a balance of styles.
Perhaps the dance should be 2 rockabilly bands and 2 rock n roll bands staggered on the night ??
Anyways thats my 02c worth as a rocker,muso and car guy..
You may just have the answer ShaunPhantom - and that is too mix the nights, a couple of Rockabilly and a couple of Rock N Roll staggered. My partner and I are still pretty new to the "Rock n Roll scene" but we travel far and wide to watch a wide variety of bands and I believe that you will NEVER please all so the trick is to try and get a balance. Shadoogie, Straight 8's, Atomic Hi Tones, BlackHill Ramblers, etc all fitted in very nicely together at Pakenham last weekend so I dont see why a mix cant work.
All of the bands mentioned on this post can be danced to and dancers have demonstrated this. I suggest listening to the band's tempo and style and see if you can apply your dance steps to them. Clearly if you can't dance to a band, then they probably don't suit you -no problems there and the bands don't mind, or, possibly, you are not a good enough dancer!
I see a situation with some dancers not unlike singers who have only ever sung to specific records or backing tracks, then have all sorts of problems standing in front of a band and singing the same songs live...something to ponder.
All of the bands mentioned on this post can be danced to and dancers have demonstrated this. I suggest listening to the band's tempo and style and see if you can apply your dance steps to them. Clearly if you can't dance to a band, then they probably don't suit you -no problems there and the bands don't mind, or, possibly, you are not a good enough dancer!
I see a situation with some dancers not unlike singers who have only ever sung to specific records or backing tracks, then have all sorts of problems standing in front of a band and singing the same songs live...something to ponder.
In response to Shaunphantom - Shaun, you may feel that by only devoting 1hr of my time listening to the Rockabilly bands play at the Big beat wasn't really enough to do it justice, well you maybe right about that. However as I said "Rockabilly" is not my taste in music and not what I expected to find when I came along to the Big Beat. I am sure all of the Bands were great at the style they perform, but it's not my scene. I just suggested that a wider variety of 50's rock n roll be incorporated into the ARRAS format.
In response to Steveo - Steveo, I am unsure why you have mentioned in your post about the bands being able to dance too as this was not the topic at all. As I said my partner and myself are only very new to the rock n roll scene and new dancers. My choice in the style of music I enjoy and go to listen too and dance too have nothing to do with whether I can dance to them or not. It is also not about being a "Good" enough dancer, coz right now No I am not a great dancer but that is here nor there when it come to musical taste. I have simply given some input to a question posed by Lyndon. Basically It's all about enjoying yourself.. and everyone is different. If people want the ARRAS to survive and thrive I think more people need to let them know what they'd like to see happen.
ok the serious side.. looks like Kim and Rob have got a job ahead which I'm shure they will do with pride and profesionalism
but what we as Muso's dancers and punters have to do is support ARRAS firstly without getting our knickers in a twist, and yes there will always be rivalry between R/Roll ,Rockabilly, dancers and yes things will be decidied that not everyone likes, we all have to be tolerant and supportive of this scene and while there is much discussion there has to be a happy medium whether we like it or not, Shaun does have a point though basicaly in a nut shell what he's asking is where to next?.
I think we're all asking that question, the answer is in us! the so called Rock and Roll scene .......... out!
Rivalry......Yes there may be in some peoples minds, but there should not be. Both styles of music fit the catagory of Rock and roll, as does swing.
Even the greats such as Buddy Holly and Elvis had hits with both musical styles.
And yes, that was the very idea behind getting this debate going.....To add support to the ARRAS and encourage more people to speak their mind on the subject...What better way for the ARRAS to find out how the Rock and Roll supporters feel.
The "Australian Rock and Roll Appreciation Society" will survive and all the punters as you call us, will benifit from the integration of the different forms of 50's and 60's music into their Charter, not the continuation of segregation between them.
I am not suggesting that die hard Rockabilly supporters should have Classic Rock forced upon them, or visa versa, but I am suggesting that the two can find common ground when promoting Rock and Roll as a whole.
In support of Cheekylilshyte's comment, we, that is Shadoogie, did a double band gig with the Straight 8's about 4 years ago and it was a blast,, The contrast in the two bands provided a night full of variety both to dance too, and to listen too.
Let's keep the debate on track and alive for a while.... B)
cheekylilshyte - I repect your input and support of ARRAS, but I just got an impression that you may have left Big Beat early due to the dislike of the music from a dancing angle... Ok so it was a purely musical decision to leave the show after an hour -fair enuf! R&R is getting to be a mixture of styles now, and thats just music evolving and mutating.
Probably do some homework on the bands before you spend your hard-earned going out, as its hard for bands just to stick to purely '50s R&R due to the age of the punters who come to gigs, which is why rockabilly and country rock etc have been more in the mix in recent years as the younger crowds are demanding these styles.
There's terrific bands playing around town who specialize in the 50's R&R which you like cheekylilshyte, and once you see a few more bands, you will get an idea of which bands are for you.
For authentic 50's and 60's rock and roll, there are quite a few good bands around town. You may want to check out HoneyB and the Stingers at the Dandy workers club on the 23 December.
the best news ive heard on vic rock since it was introduced getting the rock n roll bands to perform with the rockabilly ones on the same events is the way to the future.we must remember that evergreen rock n roll is user frendly,and does cater for the people who are learning to dance also the music they remember is after all the rock idols of the 50s. n 60s.it is a shame they were not brought up with rockabiily music in and around them.with maybe the exception of elvis and his early recordings,even 25yrs ago i was impressed with the straight 8s.who to me are the best rockabiily band in melb,i think we need to get more people into rock n roll and the way to make rockabilly out there and in your face is to put more of those bands with rock n roll bands. at least that way the people coming to a rock n roll night will experience rockabilly music at the same time.my personal opinion of rockabilly is it is either to fast or to slow.it,s very hard to find middle ground.and like rocknroll not every song is popular to dance to. but then again my concern is not what i like but what people can dance to.
the best news ive heard on vic rock since it was introduced getting the rock n roll bands to perform with the rockabilly ones on the same events is the way to the future.we must remember that evergreen rock n roll is user frendly,and does cater for the people who are learning to dance also the music they remember is after all the rock idols of the 50s. n 60s.it is a shame they were not brought up with rockabiily music in and around them.with maybe the exception of elvis and his early recordings,even 25yrs ago i was impressed with the straight 8s.who to me are the best rockabiily band in melb,i think we need to get more people into rock n roll and the way to make rockabilly out there and in your face is to put more of those bands with rock n roll bands. at least that way the people coming to a rock n roll night will experience rockabilly music at the same time.my personal opinion of rockabilly is it is either to fast or to slow.it,s very hard to find middle ground.and like rocknroll not every song is popular to dance to. but then again my concern is not what i like but what people can dance to.
Your spot on Danny a mix of styles will allow both styles to be exposed to people who may not have caught a traditional R and R band or a red hot rockabilly act.
I relly think this is trhe way to go, when I first strted playing with Jump and Jive the big beat of the time consisted of about 12 bands and they were a mix of rock and rockabilly, I have not seen that in a long time..
Another thing to consider with Rockabillly bands is generally they play pubs and hotels and not dances, a lot of that crowd are not rock and roll dancers and tend to dance in a more current style, like it or not such bands have to cut it in pubs and that means diversity and melding of styles from blues/rock/swing etc and whats gets em shaking and drinking and having a good time.
Its nice to play the dances but we have to survive in the world of punters, competing with top 40 acts and whatever.
Its a hard act to get the balance.. but hey you keep on tryin cause we love it
Lyndon raised a very interesting proposition for ARRAS (if I read it right) to integrate all forms of music - classic rock & roll, rockabilly and even swing! I am all for variety, and would love to see this happen one day. Let's hope it does! But humans being generally tribal in nature might just get in the way.
I love both the Rockabilly and the Classic R&R music and happily dance to both. Therefore the suggestion to have a mixture of R&R and Rockabilly bands for the night would be fantastic as it would be an opportunity to bring together the R&R and Rockabilly people. And allowing each group to sample a different beat and hopefully promoting fuller appreciation of all forms of music and people.
On this note, the point made by some that younger people love the faster and more aggressive Rockabilly music may not hold true in all cases. I know the Swing Scene in Melbourne (probably just as big as R&R) is dominated by a younger crowd (between 18 to 35) and they are dancing to music of the 1920's and 1940's although they are also into the neo swing bands today. If only we can also bring together this swing crowd into ARRAS functions, even if it is done only on the odd occasions. I for one know that these swing dancers are pretty versatile, and could dance to any music - be it classic R&R, Rockabilly, Big Band or Neo swing.
Heh Mel the censor, I see you have trimmed my comments.
Now look whoÂ’s got their knickers in a knot.
You have an advantage. You can censor me but I cant censor you.
When I think about it, you took off in a hurry from Big Beat.
Fortunately for the bands and our little group of ARRAS volunteers, not everyone has the same taste as cheeky.
I totally agree that ARRAS would benefit from embracing the RockÂ’nÂ’Roll scene.
More RockÂ’nÂ’Roll items and bands in the magazine. Running a RockÂ’nÂ’Roll version of Big Beat etc.
The difficulty is people are needed to help do it. ARRAS has to date leant towards its traditional and existing support base which is a fair call, because that is where the support and magazine contributions come from, but that is slowly changing.
Since ARRAS has been around for such a long time, it would be a shame for it to wind up. But when the few people who donÂ’t mind helping no longer can, some times tough decisions end up getting made.
Many people have great ideas or plenty to say, but very few put up their hand to help or actually do anything concrete or helpful which makes changes or improvements slow.
A couple of years ago no-one had heard of ARRAS so to see much discussion about it is a positive sign and helps raise the profile of the club.
Staging Big Beat was and is very expensive. Having Rockabilly and RockÂ’nÂ’Roll bands on the one program sounds great but concerns that doing so could alienate both crowds are valid, with the risk that few might attend. It could go the other way, but if not, it would be an expensive experiment.
Good Friday was different as was Pakenham which Utopia & Cliff organized, because all the bands donated their services, which took away the risk.
Big Beat favours the Rockabilly bands because of a couple of factors.
1. Consideration for the traditional and existing ARRAS support base.
2. There are usually many RockÂ’nÂ’Roll gigs already every Saturday night. To stage a RockÂ’nÂ’Roll night up against many other RockÂ’nÂ’Roll nights also presents financial risks.
Maybe, a couple of RockÂ’nÂ’Roll and Rockabilly bands could get together and put on a mixed night of their own and do it as a door deal. Food for thought.
For the record, ARRAS rolls on because of a handful of people alone.
Rob & Kim are ARRAS. They do everything to do with running it and enabling it to exist.
Scanno is the Big Beat magazine He does everything to produce it except set it out as he is unable to see to do that.
Darren organizes all the presenters for the radio show.
Cliff & I help whenever Rob asks for help, which is usually the organizing and promoting of events if we are able to.
Wildcat writes a regular column for the Big Beat magazine and has recently been coerced with Kempy to join the committee.
And the other bloke who came to one meeting.
Mel, thank you for your comment about my post and FIGJAMÂ’s out of line behaviour towards me. His behaviour is almost enough to make my partner and I completely leave the Rock n Roll scene, so I dare say his people skills and promotional skills are definitely not his strong points. I will not let this Disgusting Ignorant behaviour ruin something I thoroughly enjoy.
FIGJAM, Hmmm Let me just say this – WOW! Your comments on this website and reaction to my opinion have done the ARRAS no favours I can tell you. ARRAS was after some feedback and I gave them some.. No one mentioned that it was suppose to only incorporate support for their current focus and accolades for their hard work. How is it going to survive with small minded over opinionated People like you ATTACKING people who wish to express an opinion just because you do not agree with it?!!!
I think itÂ’s disgusting that because I chose to express my opinion and make an observation that someone so involved with ARRAS would then attack me for taking the time to give some feedback that they had requested.
I do not need to Prove to you I was at the Big Beat, I was there and there are a couple of people who can verify that. I and my partner are very new to the Rock n Roll dance scene and you are obviously very Ignorant to think that just because some one is new to the Rock N Roll dance scene that they have NO knowledge or appreciation for that Era and Music.
More to the POINT.. if you go back and read my post, it clearly states that my DISAPPOINTMENT was in the fact that ARRAS’s Main focus was Rockabilly. This is because in going to an event that the “Australian Rock n Roll Appreciation Society” hosted I Expected it to be more about the Rock n Roll style I mentioned. I do not have to Defend my taste in Music to you. I did not attack the bands that played this event nor did I attack the Rockabilly style of music or anyone who ran the event, I merely expressed my opinion about the style I expected to find compared to what I did find.
My partner and I were very keen to get more involved in this scene, hence attending the Big Beat. However if that means dealing with someone like you, No wonder they are having trouble keeping it alive. All the other comments on this site about ARRAS have been constructive such as the integration of the two styles at one gig so as to broaden the audience they have. However if someone like myself had not voiced my opinion how would anyone know there was a NEED to try and incorporate the different 50Â’s Music styles.
So FIGJAM maybe you should sit back and think before you run off at the mouth. As your behaviour and attitude is definitely not an encouraging marketing tool for ARRAS.
I hope those who are the Heart and Soul of ARRAS take everyoneÂ’s opinions and suggestions seriously into consideration and do not take the comments made in an offensive manner.
Hi Cheeky,
I'm president of ARRAS and had no idea that our Big Beat dance would bring so much discussion.
It's true that the main focus with our Big Beat dance these days is in Rockabilly, as there are all ready quite a number of dances each week playing the mainstream Rock'n'Roll.
Not all our dances are 100% rockabilly and last year we had Itchy Fingers and Ian B MacLeod playing their Rock'n'Roll.
Our magazine does cater for all music genres of the 50's, including Doo Wop, Rhythm & Blues, Rock'n'Roll and Rockabilly, as well as promoting the local scene.
I am all for embracing all forms of music from the 50's and have been talking to people on VicRock, like Lyndon, Mel, RobE, etc, on ways of integrating the dance scene.
We have sent magazines out to all dance clubs to try and get them involved and even offered to do articles on their club.
Unfortunately, nobody took us up on the offer.
We have talked as a committee of having an annual "Dance Beat" featuring Rock'n'Roll dance bands, but with only a small committee to organise this, it never took off. If there is anyone who can help to arrange this, then I'd love to hear from you. We only need a couple of people to set this up, AND the dance scene to embrace it.
Please remember that we are a voluntary organisation with an active committee of only5 people, most of whom are busy with other work and family committments.
I am definitely contactable if any one has ideas about strengthening the RnR scene and ARRAS.
My phone number is 0419 148 540.
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