The below email has been received by us with a request to pass it around to give everyone who is interested a 'heads up' on what appears to be happening in the Qld RnR scene.
Daz_In_Tas
Tassie Rockers
----- Original Message -----
From: XXXXXXXXXX
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 7:54 PM
Subject: Atmosphere - band comments!
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COPY RECEIVED FROM BAND- for your information
I wanted to write this for*your newsletter, as many RnR clubs and their members are keeping their heads in the sand.
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CLUBS DROPPING 50s,60s ROCK N ROLL ACTS:
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Over the last*12 months our band, like others, are seeing Bowls and RSL clubs reducing the bands that play 50s,60s,70s Rock n Roll and, unfortunately, there is going to be less and less venues where you can go to dance to your favorite music, or for that matter, bands.
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Speaking with a number of high profile agencies, they are confirming my worst fears, Rock n Roll as a product in clubs has been declining for years, and clubs are all saying Rock n Roll dancers are not a valued commodity. They don’t drink and 95% don’t even have meals at clubs... they eat before they come out... so why should clubs support them by putting on rock n roll bands that only take up space. I have spoken to 6 major clubs in Brisbane that "WILL" not be booking rock n roll bands in 2011.
The answer isn’t simple, but more and more young people want hard music, and*the other night at a Northside club I saw a young local garage band playing... they were awful but the bar was packed with them buying alcohol. After the night, the Duty Manager who is a friend, said, that’s fabulous... our bar takings are up 500% as against the
nights we have Rock n Roll bands who are water drinking dancers. Also, he said, these bands work for half the price...that’s right! Clubs can get loud crush bands for $300 for a 4 piece*act, and with the bar takings, its a winner for the club.
Many bands you know and love are not going to be around the circuit soon. I can guarantee the days of Rock n Roll bands playing at clubs*is coming to an end... only the rock n roll dance club nights will be viable.
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WHAT CAN YOU DO:
Nothing!!!* It's too late... the clubs have spoken... Rock n Roll dancers let this happen by being too conservative and following the rules.
Clubs DON'T want water drinking, time wasting Rock n Roll dancers, they want bar spending young people, food buying patrons and
if they can get this by putting in young rock, metal bands they will... and they are! Remember!! That is what helps clubs pay their staff.
In the future, when all is said and done, Rock n Roll is dead in the eyes of club managers.
There is no need complaining to clubs... they will tell you simple and clear what do... Rock n Roll dancers bring nothing financially to clubs other than shoes and packed sandwich in their bags.
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Final Comment: Our band has made the decision to progress and introduce 80s, 90s music into our repertoire, so as not to die with
bands that wont change. I can guarantee if these bands don't upgrade their music they will be playing in their garages
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Hmm Sounds a bit Country to me... Yeah as we all know that's what happened to the Melbourne country scene.. I agree to a point what this person is saying, but there are a lot of buts and ifs, by that I mean Melbourne punters are a little different, by that I mean some do, some don't, and our clubs are to a point fed up with water drinkers TRUE..
What has happened in Melbourne is, the drinkers( Rockabilly scene), play pubs and clubs and in a way have left the rock and rollers behind, in being accepted in pubs,and now are playing in main stream RnR clubs as well, and there are a lot of rock and rollers that are going to the pub rockabilly scene,and are enjoying both worlds, for me the rock and rollers have plenty to celebrate with many RnR Clubs, who are run by mainly dancers, Dj's and sometimes bands them selves,so I don't think we're dead yet. But Yes there is an underlining point. and I'm not in the business of telling people to drink sheet loads of booze or drink only water, nor am I going to sit on the fence because I'm in a band... The man makes sense if we want to survive we need 1 New blood, 2 a healthy balance of supporting the venues that support our music, and 3 each other... other wise we are dead ducks in the water... Just my thoughts.. Me.
One way around this (and it is the HARD way) is to organise your own gigs in a hall or in a social club.
In Victorian regional centres community based Rock'n'Roll clubs either have to run their own programs or they do not get to dance.
Around Melbourne a few hard working enthusiasts run their own "commercial" dances like Little Maria's, Northside, Rockin' Susies, Mordi Rock etc.
This involves charging the punters an entrance fee to cover costs like:
- Hall Hire
- Band
- DJ
- Advertising
- Insurance
- APRA licence (for playing recorded music)
- Security
Or try to find a pub that will be a niche venue; like the Rockabilly and Roots Rock Sunday arvo sessions at the Gully. The bar is not very big and it sure is not flash but teh Gully has an enthusiaistic and loyal crowd that appreciates quality musicianship and that does buy drinks.
Hello Frank
I do not get it, are we doing it or don't we do it,not quite sure what. are the R&Rollers on a good thing or maybe not, Rockabilly & pubs clubs if's & but's 1 and 2 maybe three.
New blood, what for new bands, new better band members, new Dancers, Pubs or Club???
you all need to take your heads out of the sand. Attendances and some remuneration are what is needed, nobody wants to travel any distance for their dancing & it seems nobody wants to spend money if this continues, It will be like the email from Daz
Frank you are correct it happened to the country music scene.
Tweetie2... Forgive me for sounding a little confused, but what are you on about ? I didn't understand a word of that. My point does not change if that helps..
And Yes the Country scene did die a terrible death, sad really, I dig Country.. Me
I would like to ad my 2 Penth worth....a lot of you know that it was around 1993/4 we started doing Country at the Seaford Hotel, and Rock N Roll, both nights where packed, after people found out about the dances.
It did run for many years there, however, when I went to the Waltzy, it still took off and most nights I can say where great, the bands....the best...the people great.....The manager told me to look around at the tables on a Country night, all water drinkers....now he did not believe that all these grown men drank water, on camera he could see people going out to their cars to have a real drink, That killed it. This also started to happen with the rockers, drinking at their cars, also coming in for the dance, going to the front of the Bistro to get a roll for free, the customer had brought in their own cheese and filling. People forget, someone has to clean all the plates glasses etc.
It was very disheartening for this to be pointed out to me. However, it only ever takes one bad apple to ruin it all for all. I think people are going to have to be satisfied with dances like Little Maria, after all she has been going for a long time now,and it works well, from what I hear.
Paying $10 to get into a RnRoll dance is cheap and one or two drinks, this all helps with ......The ability to make a quid, that's what its all about. $$$$$$$$$$
Bands today are still being paid at a very low rate, this should change.
I have listened to bands in England and South Africa & Zimbabwe..I can tell you....Melbourne has the BEST. ( and the rest of Oz.)
I cannot believe what I,m reading. Dancers get into venues and dont pay,WHAT THE. We on the east side of the yarra pay to get into dances and they are all $17 . Rhode Island Rockers,Ballarat Rockers,Black hat daddies,Renegade Rockers ,Jukebox rockers, all around that price.The Jukebox rockers have a no drinks policy and it works. DJ Jeff at Melton on Saturday night ,$12. DJ stringray on a Sunday $5 I think. For this we get some great music,have a fantastic night and go home without thinking we have paid too much.Whats the cost of a good night anyway. We dont even give it a second thought about paying to get into a dance. If the pubs and clubs are going to not have rock n roll/rockabilly because the punters only drink water then more fools they are for not putting on a cover charge. We use to go to the saloon bar and all of a sudden they wanted to charge $5 ,yep $5 for around 6 hours of dancing on a Sunday. Guess what,it,s closed. If the punters refuse to go because of the cost of getting into these clubs then there is no one else is to blame but the dancers. Come on, I wont work for free and I certainly would not expect a club thats cost mega bucks to stay open to do it for free, let alone the bands. At Barham we were offered Billy and the headliners,the speedsters Mark Nunis and the Honkytonk Express (wow) and Dance on, all for $20 for 3 big days of rock n roll. We all know not many of us drink enough at a dance to pay for the cleaners let alone everything else and to drink only water and then bring your own dinner,jeez ,wake up ,pay up and enjoy dancing for the reasons we started dancing in the first place or loose it in the pubs. Sorry guys but think about or you will end up paying for dances that will only be on a Saturday night.
bit of panic stations here,?mainly with this post above my answer,the e mail originated from queensland!rocknroll is alive and well in our state of victoria...go to the workers club on a friday nite,for free,always packed to the rafters,and most people traditionally dining out before hitting the dance floor to top bands,same as sunday nite,at the workers or the dandy rsl...free!entry,same as the monash on a saturday nite,unless theres an extravaganza on (2 or more bands)the gully, or davies, and groovers,or any pub in fact on a sunday all free entry...our choice of where we wish to go,cant be everywhere at once?then we go to dance halls or clubs where we wish to pay,like jons allycats, lil marias,clives at northside,furlan,rockin suzies etc.to support our favorite hosts or bands,tho,we indulge in a drink or two to socialize and support the venue,we are not alcoholics...and if we were?trouble with the law.dancers simply do not drink and drive anymore,and we cant predict the future,so just go out where you wish to go,dance your socks off!and to hell with the manager,who frowns on our scene,let them close up shop,we have alternative venues all round melbourne,look what happened to the waltzy after alan left...we learnt to accept and move on,because reviving past venues once the crowd has moved on wont work..this subject has been bought up before,we are still rockin to our favorite bands..garage bands?never!our bands are too classy to let there standards slip.my veiw only...tezza
Good stuff Allen very nicely said, if we go back a few months Ashley tried to give everybody a fair issue of good music for a miserly sum of about $10 or $15 he put a huge amount of effort into getting something going, the support he received from the dancers was rather poor to say the least.
Saxmaniac seems to have his finger on the button, pubs & Clubs are not charities, like every business income needs to happen, one way or another. There is no such thing as a money tree.
Roknray you’re probably fortunate the there is still lots going on around your area, where I come from we only have, if we are lucky 1 local R&R club dance a year, there were many more in years gone by all have faded out, our local services club has cut the music out and put in Disco metal & punk plenty of youngies prepared to drink and party, our footy club has wiped the music altogether and covered the dance floor with carpet and turned the area into a lounge, we only have one club left with sometimes half good free entertainment, I’ve got the feeling it’s days are numbered.
We have some good Musso friends they were country & R&R now they are into Metal, Rock & Funk as they said they need to keep their gigs to survive, and that clubs don’t want dancers.
Further to this, not so long ago I rang a Pub down in central Vic because they advertised a band which we were quite fond of, my reason for ringing them was to find out what the dance floor was like, I was told quite bluntly, dancers were not welcome and they didn’t have any dancing facilities.
Tweetie2 put it in a nut shell get your heads out of the sand, the gravy train is running out of steam.
It seems we may have to panic. GJO267 has seen the effects of the lack of support dancers give to businesses that need to make bucks to provide the thing we need and that,s music. It maybe free now and hopefully free in the future and us dancers are the one,s in control of how long it stays this way. Those that believe venue,s owe dancers a thing by providing music and a place to dance for free ,think again. It,s good to hear that some do buy a meal at these venues as you say Tezza,but I to have seen some go outside to grab a drink of the hard stuff then go back into the dance,bloody cheap sh.ts. Ive seen dudes smuggle the hard stuff into dances in apple juice bottles and then only buy a couple of cans of soft drink,again cheap s..ts. If we all believe it to be the right thing and buy some drinks ,make a night of it and have a meal at the club this may help in slowing and even stopping what happening in Queensland happening here. We are at the jukebox rockers often and believe the punters that go there behave by buying drinks at the bar and it seems to please all concerned. My thoughts only being maybe a small cover charge will remove the free word from these posts and all will be OK. Man nothing is free anymore and why should it be.
fair comments ray,not our choice that these venues offer free entry,the people behind the bands,and band members themselves will come to some arrangements with managers of these venues to ensure live music has a place in the industry,and work hard at maintaining patronage thru the doors by promoting thru social websites like this and others like facebook,myspace,etc.i say enjoy today,like theres no tomorrow,rocknroll and live bands and venues will be around alot longer than me,so i plan to enjoy every minute of my time out there on our scene.
I must be missing something in this conversation I thought it was common practice to travel up to 1hour to get to a dance pay an average of $18 to enter didn,t know there were free gigs .Forget who said it but there are some cheep bu---rs out there.
Hey to all,
Everyone is making fair statements, but,
I regularly attend inner city venues Brunswick, Collingwood, etc. bands playing a variety of danceable music.( R&R, R BILLY, BLUES )
People at these venues are drinking, dancing, and having fun.
Widening the scope of venues instead of the same old destinations every week, it may surprise a lot of people!
Egopye.
Egopye is 100% correct there is heaps of country,blues,rock n roll and rockabilly gigs in the pubs around inner city Melbourne. I should know I play at most of them and attend gigs on a regular basis.
Get the street press,listen to PBS,RRR and 3CR read the papers and you'll find a whole new world of roots music out there played by top Melbourne musos.
Has anyone been to The Lomond,The Retreat,The Gem,The Cornish Arms etc etc, These pubs are well attended and everyone has a ball. Maybe these people who think the end is near need to get out a bit more,music of ALL types is strong in Melbourne pubs.
More attendences cannot be a bad thing for the bands venues and punters.
Great to have the music in the pubs , but is there a dance floor for more than two couples? As most people we know, want to dance. I know there isnt at the Gem but what about the other pubs. Yes we will travel a couple of hours to see , hear, and dance to these bands.
The topic of this thread suggests that venue owners/managers are dropping live rock & roll and/or roots music in favour of head-bang cover bands. This might be the sitch in parts of QLD’s major cities, but I doubt that it’s a national trend, especially around Melbourne’s inner city and suburban pubs. In general terms … our live music set up in Pubs/clubs is different to most capital cities and I doubt if the Atmosphere Band comment reflects this.
I have been involved in weekly Rock & Roll (pub) gigs for over 5 years and have been told that prior to live bands at these venues … the bar staff were serving only a handful of bar flies. As long as the bar take covers live band payment, the venue owners are satisfied as it brings in punters for the other entertainment on offer. Re door charge, I agree with it as long as it goes to the band. But some venue owners insist on free entry to compete with rival pubs.
I would suspect that other rock & roll, BYO ‘pay at the door’ or town-hall style dances need a lot more work in terms of promotion and organisation around Melbourne suburbs or country Victoria let alone country Queensland. I feel for bands who witness the demise of their work options. The alternative may be … move to where the work is or adapt to their changing environment.
Interesting to read the above comments. Good topic Baz and thanx for posting it. In answer to your question 'fairlane' … the Ferntree Gully Hotel has two dance areas with the bonus of 4 different floor coverings. Also … truck loads of ‘Atmosphere’. Good luck with your Pylong dance Mick.
Jazzman.
Live & let Live, Love & let Love, Rock & let Roll, plus related clichés.
Queenslander!! Firstly How Many Dancers are getting a free cruise on any of the Rock n Roll Cruises non that I know so why cant we spend a little at clubs , I know the brissie band who posted the original letter they were here in Darwin in January and I congratulate them for it my personal knowledge its very wide spread dancers sneaking in food and pre-mixed drink in there wife's bag and use the clubs glasses Ive seen it and when caught they say hey Ill go somewhere else if you don't want our patronage "GOOD GO" It's a privilege and most dancers should appreciate that clubs here offer free entertainment yes I like comments do a door charge again that has it's limits especially when there is 1 lounge area stage and dance floor so charging everyone who comes in to the club just to have a drink and play pokies and have a meal would be a nightmare not everyone comes to dance. Its as simple as the nose on every Rock n Roll dancers face just Buy a club meal always a meal on special and a light beer , or share a bottle of wine between a group but don't take clubs for granted another point is of course hire a hall have a cover all good in Maryborough recently this was organized and a lady broke her leg in the hall the organizers did not have Public Liability Stuffed then security in case of trouble who pays for that No Courtesy Bus Free , anyway my point is clubs cover all of this and offer a fabulous service so why doesn't the rock n rollers spend a little if everyone spent $15.00 x 60 = $900 on a night to the club everyone would be happy I am a dancer and I'm frustrated with RnR Whingers saying ow the clubs are financial we deserve to get everything free " BULL-Sh**" 85% of the fraternity are responsible 15% are want,want,want but all for free.
Re: Atmosphere - band comments!
Re: Atmosphere - band comments!
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