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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Endeavour Hills, Victoria, Australia, Australia
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    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    I fully agree with comments by Cat, Jamesbro and Figjam, but more-so of Longgonebaby for the reasons they all gave. After all my years of dance, I still would not know the name of any dance move I have learned.
    Also, I could not give a continental about defining / catagorising and in particular, dance-move name or style. I agree on the point of “You cannot teach Rockabilly attitude”.
    I think Rockabilly attitude /lifestyle … ever-changing as it is … is something that has to be experienced over a few decades.
    In my opinion … it’s all about enjoyment of a powerful rockabilly band and expressing that enjoyment through your own style and combination of dance moves that make you and your partner feel good about themselves. That’s the main criteria in rockabilly culture for me.
    Fifties rockabilly music together with the so-called rockabilly dance style, missed the boat to Australia. It wasn’t until the early 70’s that rockabilly really made an impact in the land of OZ (as small as it was). Thanx to the persistence of a few rockabilly bands around the world who led the revival like Welshmen … ‘Crazy Cavan & the Rhythm Rockers’ with Reborn American rockabillies like Ray Campi etc who were sponsored by the Poms and Scandinavians where they could pick up work.
    Also … thank God for the backyard record companies like ‘Bear Family’ in Germany and elsewhere around Europe in the early days that recorded these obscure 70’s rockabilly bands and distributed rare rockabilly compilation records.
    I must say though and it’s only my personal opinion … I just do not understand why some bands used to prefer to record their stuff in that old mono sound. I know its big oversees but really … there’s been some great rockabilly songs ruined that way.
    If Hank Williams Sr had a choice between recording in mono or today’s digital technology… bet he would haven chosen the latter. Give me ‘Move it on Over’ delivered by George Thorogood/Travis Tritt any day. Yeah mate … rockabilly music that's Crisp & Clear with Ballsey Grunt! ... nuthin' like it.
    Great thread guys and isn’t it good to be able to express our comments with opinions and reasons without the need to personally bag any one person, group or band. Keep it up!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5ifr4zL1YM
    Last edited by Jazza; 09-10-2009 at 01:10 PM.
    Live & let Live, Love & let Love, Rock & let Roll, plus related clichés.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    148

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Quote Originally Posted by FIGJAM View Post
    Since PR person

    How long is the history and who's history is the history (Sorry Sue). My memory of music 20 and 30 years ago is Skyhooks, Cold Chisel, Renee Geyer, ACDC, Diesal, Sherbert, Jo Jo Zep and the Falcons, Old 55 etc. I had never heard of bands mentioned in this topic until Cliff started his bands 8 years ago, yet I worked in live entertainment all through my 20s.
    The history of the music, the history of the bands, the history of the dance. Not the history of the people. It's not about personalities, it's about the music.

    Rockabilly was always a 'sub-culture' and as such, if you weren't in the know, you wouldn't know the music or even where it was being played years ago. Advertising was scarce and limited to those that were already involved in the rockabilly scene. Therefore it made for a more select group, not by design, but just because it WAS a sub-culture.

    The only popular music in the 80s that was rockabilly was Stray Cats, as Figjam pointed out. They shone the light on the rockabilly sub-culture....with their music, their performances and the way they dressed. Just have a look at the video clips! Typical rockabilly boy dressing and yet the girls in the clips were very 80s looking in clothes.

    Lee Rocker's guitarist, Buzz Campbell, is one of my good buddies. I've been lucky enough to hang out with him when I'm in the States. He said that Lee Rocker was one of the nicest, most decent people he knew, and also probably too honest and nice for his own good. My opinion was that I thought Lee Rocker was the nicest 'cat', and Buzz agreed. Just my humble opinion.

    Who cares about the history? Those that participated and see it being lost altogether because so few old rockabillies have remained in the scene. My point is to preserve the history of the rockabilly genre of music and dance as it occured in Melbourne. It wasn't, and should never be, about personalities. Not then. Not now.

    Long live the music.....regardless of what type floats your boat. It's all good.
    Good manners cost nothing.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ferntree Gully
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    1,135

    Thumbs up Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Really enjoying this thread; plenty to think about.

    1. It will be good to see our cousins from the other side of the Nullabor.

    2. Longgonebaby, to me Rockabilly Dancing is characterised by:
    - No regular back step
    - Handshake grip
    - Rising rhythmic hand movement
    - Always circling clockwise.

    3. Cat, thanks for providing the name "Formation" dancing; this does sound better than the name associated with cowboys. (Of course lyrics in the '50s did talk about "big boss line" and "join the line and you'll be fine".)

    4. Figgy, I kind of agree about the taxonomy of venues.

    What you described as "Rock'n'Roll" I think of as "Black & White Shoe". The songs tends to be a bit more Top 40 and there is a part of the crowd who are concerned that the music is not too loud or too fast. At these places there is a break for Formation Dancing (which I love when its the R'n'R line dances).

    The places you call "Rockabilly" I think of as "Roots Rock" but I call them Rockabilly 'cos its easier. After all, these venues also give us bands that play all kinds of related music including Country, Jump Blues, Western Swing, Zydeco, Rockabilly and Classic Rock. I prefer Roots Rock/Rockabilly venues 'cos the music is more enthusiastic.

    Rob Ewart
    Victorian Rock'n'Roll Dance Assoc

    www.VRRDA.org.au

    It's your Association, get involved. Good ideas are always welcome.
    Make sure your R'n'R club or dance school is getting best value.

    .

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    East Gippsland
    Posts
    70

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    I have enjoyed reading all the comments on this topic. Couldn`t help but put my 10 cents in. To me the rockabilly dance styles are slightly different in different countries : eg the UK, Europe and the U.S. I have videos of the different styles, including early days in Australia.

    Rockabilly in Australia is more the old traditional style of rock and roll that rockers did before we were influenced by American swing and east coast swing etc. It`s a two step which means it can be done to very fast music without tiring out.There was never any back step ( as this slows you down )and the male rotates around the woman in an anti clockwise direction. The beat is slightly different to 4 step & six step rock and roll. Some styles involve a rotating hand movement and the dancers remain in an upright position. This was the style danced in Australia in the 50`s and 60`s , how do I know ? cause I was there. When the music of the 60`s turned to more intrumental or surf music, more spins were introduced to flow with the music.

    The old style rockabilly is taught in Perth at the Mustang bar and also in Sydney. I don`t know of anyone who teaches rockabilly in Victoria. In Perth the rockabilly dancers like to stick to their own 2 step, and some Western Australians also have a unique style of rockabilly danced at the Snake Pit in the 50` & 60`s at Scarborough.

    You were all correct in saying that rockabilly is all about attitude. Greasers danced this style and you kept it tight without infringing on other dancers space, or there could be trouble. But remember in the early days all dancing was done in halls as pubs had 6.0`clock closing until mid 1966.

    Today I find that in Victoria most people dance 4 & six step to rockabilly music. Although I really do enjoy watching young rockabilly folk doing classic rockabilly , it looks awesome. We are so lucky in Victoria to have such great rockabilly bands, and obviously the word has got around.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    148

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Thanks Jiver J! It's so good to hear from someone who was there in the early years. Your knowledge of rockabilly across the globe is very interesting. I'd love to see your videos of the early rockabilly, especially the Victorian stuff.

    There may exist some early videos of dances held in the Caulfield Secondary College by the Australian Rockabilly Association. I'd love to get hold of any of these that were pre-1997 (we have DVDs of 1997 onwards).

    If anyone has anything from these days, please drop me a pm and let me know. I'd be happy to reimburse you for a copy, or have it copied if you have it on video.

    This has been a really interesting thread and I'm very glad that Jitts posted the original video clip that led to this lively discussion.
    Good manners cost nothing.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    665

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    I remember the old sense of family that we had at regular venues like the Royal Derby, Bell St Rock and Moomba Hotel. We had over 100 bands in Melbourne, most nights had two or more bands playing, we were so spoilt. In fact most nights of the week, there was a gig on somewhere. We had a culture of 'dancing tight', walking around the dance floor when it was full to get to the other side, if we bumped into another couple, we apologised. It was always about the music and the people who played that music, but we also had strong social values that we upheld.

    I'll add that every capital city's dance style was very different, so we could spot visitors easily and could usually tell where they were from by the way they danced pub-rock.

    I'll stop rambling now.
    You can't handle the truth!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    East Gippsland
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    70

    Thumbs down Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Quite true Cat. It`s also true of today, that you can usually tell where rockers come from by their dance style, you can also usually tell who their teachers are too. We never learnt to dance in the early days , it just happened. Wild Bill Haley and `Rock around The Clock`can be thanked for that.

    Remember also that in the early days most who danced rockabilly or traditional style rock and roll were young people, I started when I was about 13 or 14 yrs. I myself can`t remember ever seeing a back step being done. Not unlike pubs of today, the dance halls were meeting places for young folk, and a lot of smooching and caressing went on in those darkened halls. One thing that always intrigues me though , is why do they call the old traditional style dance ` Pub rock`? when it was never danced in pubs. Not until the late 60`s, 70`s anyway.

    Swing was done in Australia in the very very early days in the 40`s and early 50`s before rock and roll & rockabilly. I have an early Australian Pix magazine that has an article and pictures of people dancing American swing in dance halls in Malvern. But as the music changed so did the dance style.

    When I first learnt 4 step rock and roll about 14 years ago it had been brought over by teachers from New Zealand, then some of us were influenced by American teachers such as Erin Stevens, Marcus & Barbl`etc who once again helped re-introduced triple step into our rock and roll. And so around it goes.

    To me personally it`s really all about the music, I like the dancing but I love the music.
    Last edited by Jiver J; 11-10-2009 at 06:25 PM. Reason: mistake

  8. #28
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    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
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    1,566

    Smile Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Interesting question posed by JiverJ - why is the traditional style called "Pub rock"? I assume because it was danced in hotels and pubs during the revival of partner dancing back in the 1980's?

    I too used to think dancing was the essence of rock & roll. When I first started dancing, I was usually the first to arrive and the last to leave the dance hall. I was crazy about dancing then! I even practiced footwork on my own in the most inappropriate of public places. I don't think I heard much about the music when I danced then apart from following the beats. I probably didn't care as long as I could dance all night long. I still enjoy dancing now but I have to admit that nowadays I'm just as happy having a beer and listening to the music, and simply soaking in the atmosphere.

    On the point about changes in dance styles over time, this is quite evident from watching videos, actual dancing etc. When I look at the Bill Halley's Rock around The Clock video, the dancers were in fact dancing Lindy Hop doing Lindy swing outs and circles. That was not rock & roll dancing at all. Later, you have the Jitterbug dance videos on films choreographed mainly by Dean Collins who first started dancing the Savoy style Lindy on the East Coast of USA. One could clearly see then the slow departure from strict Lindy Hop dancing. And in the 1980's you have the pub rock followed by the different variation of rock & roll styles, including incorporating triple steps like the Kiwis do or "Fourmost" dancers in Melbourne. Even now, when I look around the dance floor, I could see couples doing different styles - traditional ones, pub rock, rockabilly, smooth R&R (influenced by swing?) and the one which is a synergy of swing and R&R which I called loosely "swing rock" - the one that incorporates Lindy & charleston steps. In my view, they are all good. No one style is better than the other. Enjoyment of the dance is more important.

    But I do agree with Longonebaby - we must remember and try to preserve our dance history. Once the collective knowledge is gone, it may be gone forever. That would be the tragedy for Rock & Roll.

    Just my opinion from the little knowledge that I have ............

  9. #29

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    rock and roll evolved from swing. From Dean Collins or Hollywood style swing. This was still Lindy Hop but with a different emphasis on the styling. But the Dean Collins whip is just a savoy style swing out. During the late sixties there was a rock and roll dance and it was not pub rock that evolved in the eighties and the name best sums it up. If you go to the wed dance at the sandown pub you can see a whole table of authentic dancers from the late fifties and early sixties. Also worth noting THEY DO NOT DO A BACK STEP. The back step is a rock and roll invention courtesy of the dance schools. In swing they have a rock step rather than a back step. There is a big difference. As for what comes first Music. But dancers are unfortunatly taught routines which they will do regardless of whether the music sais so. Dance schools and teachers have a lot to answer to in regards to so many of the bad things about rock and roll dancing. Its the music baby, the music that counts. As dancers we use this music to communicate with our partners.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
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    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    When I first moved to Melbourne in 1974, I used to see people at the Waltzing Matilda Hotel doing pub rock (although no-one called it pub rock, no-one called it anything) mixed with other people moving on the dance floor in the dance style of the day. It always seemed to be mostly a lot of girls dancing together and in circles with blokes watching.
    Over the next few uears, the disco stuff started and all the John Travoltas came out of the wood work.

    I did also notice around that time that it was venues close to Springvale that I saw people rock'n'roll. Sanddown, South Side Six, The Village Green

    The first time I heard the expression "Pub Rock" was when Cliff's cousin Steve and his wife Denny (who both used to be rockers), went along to rock'n'roll classes about 7 years ago with friends for fun.
    The said the dance teacher called what they did "Pub Rock"
    They stopped going to classes because they hated what they were being taught, preferring to do their "Pub Rock".

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    255

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    It appears to be dress,attitude and a special style is what you need to dance rockabilly.I could dance rock n roll to this tune and if I dress like the rockabilly guys think they should dress,I would maybe pass as a rockabilly dancer.As a rock n roller I wear what most others wear.A custom brought shirt,a pair of special dance shoes and at at dance I blend in.If I remember right in my rock n roll days I would wear street shoes that were pointy toed,a black cotton type shirt with the collar turned up and black or denim jeans that were like they were painted on,black leather jacket or black suit coat.So totally different to today.Like my Dad always said clothes dont make a man.In this case it appears they turn the man into the dancer he wants to be.Look at the clip and listen to the music.I could dance my style to it . Maybe us rock n rollers and rockabillys could all fit on the same dance floor if they are playing this music and calling it rockabilly.Leave me out of it for the fast one,s.The stray Cats,a great band and you will see dance clips with swing and lindy dancers cutting the rug to them and are they not a rockabilly band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sv-rkH_AQY
    That,ll be the day the music die,s

  12. #32
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    Aug 2004
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    148

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Did I read that post right? Is roknray saying that Stray Cats AREN'T a rockabilly band????
    Good manners cost nothing.

  13. #33
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    Jul 2006
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    255

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Nar ,read wrong Longgonbaby..The post was about rockabilly.I figured that it is all about attitude and if you are a rock n roller or rockabilly dancer then you would not be impressed if when you walked into a dance and heard the Stray Cats tune Zoot Suit Riot playing,thats all I meant.Unless you could dance swing and then why the hell would you have stove pipes on for with the fob chain at a swing dance.We are all going to dances these days to dance ,what ever style we dance to.Keep rockin.
    That,ll be the day the music die,s

  14. #34
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    Aug 2004
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    148

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Whew!!! Thanks for clearing that up roknray. And I agree with what you've said in your post.

    This has been a really interesting and entertaining thread!
    Good manners cost nothing.

  15. #35
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    Jan 2004
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    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    (Did the Stray Cats do "Zoot Suit Riot"? I only know the Cherry Poppin' Daddies' version. This is in parenthesis 'cos it might be getting off topic.)

    So are the people in Ray's clip doing real Rockabilly dancing? Looks like it to me.

    Also, does anyone have a clip of Rockabilly blokes solo dancing? (And not those wacky looking Japanese Rockabilly guys. )

    Does this dance form have a name?
    Rob Ewart
    Victorian Rock'n'Roll Dance Assoc

    www.VRRDA.org.au

    It's your Association, get involved. Good ideas are always welcome.
    Make sure your R'n'R club or dance school is getting best value.

    .

  16. #36
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    Melbourne
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    Smile Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Brian Setzer's orchestra did a version of "Zoot Suit Riot" ........ I love dancing to this song. Tempo's a bit faster so need to keep the dance moves simpler and footwork tighter ie smaller footsteps.

    When I was in Perth recently, I was told categorically by a "rockabilly" dancer that you can't dance rock & roll to rockabilly music. How wrong was he - if only he dances in Melbourne week in week out.

    Question for Robe - why isn't there a separate dance category for "rockabilly" in VRRDA's dance competition? The Australian Masters Games do.

  17. #37
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    Aug 2004
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    148

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Quote Originally Posted by Jitterbug View Post
    Brian Setzer's orchestra did a version of "Zoot Suit Riot" ........ I love dancing to this song. Tempo's a bit faster so need to keep the dance moves simpler and footwork tighter ie smaller footsteps.

    When I was in Perth recently, I was told categorically by a "rockabilly" dancer that you can't dance rock & roll to rockabilly music. How wrong was he - if only he dances in Melbourne week in week out.

    Question for Robe - why isn't there a separate dance category for "rockabilly" in VRRDA's dance competition? The Australian Masters Games do.
    I have a clip of some great rockabilly dancing circa 1990s which also includes some solo mens dancing. As far as I know, it was called the Bop. I'll ask around further about that.

    Yes you certainly CAN dance rock'n'roll to rockabilly music. The thing about rockabilly (and the rockabilly sub-culture) is that nothing is prescriptive and it's all about individuality. Everyone does it a little different....dress, dance, music. There can't be a category in VRDDA because the steps can't be prescribed. That's the whole point. You do it YOUR way, not the way someone says they can teach it.

    You can't teach cool. But you can dance it.
    Good manners cost nothing.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    255

    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Hi guys.This has been very interesting and so many posts .I thought you might all like to see a NO FUSS rockabilly tune .Attitude and talent,what a good mix. Check out the guitar player. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jef3xkklfR0
    That,ll be the day the music die,s

  19. #39
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    Jun 2008
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    East Gippsland
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    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Amazing that this topic is still moving along. Actually in the earlier days of the VRRDA comps they had a `Traditional ` category. This was before Rob`s time I think. I went in traditional a few times myself and was happy that it was preserving Australian R&Roll history. But somewhere along the line six step rock and roll , back steps, and a more swingy style infiltrated and it was lost to the VRRDA. I was sad to see it go. The Crown Casino used to have r&roll comps and a pure Rockabilly category was included,as did a `Strutters` dance competition in Chelsea in about 1997.

    The best rockabilly dancing you will ever see is in the U.K. The men also dance the Rockabilly Bop together. Some of this can be seen in a video called
    `The London Rock & Roll show- Live at Wembley Stadium 1972`. Graham Fenton appeared there as well . At Wintersun this year an English rockabilly guy told me that in England they call the Ladies rockabilly stroll - the meat rack. Interesting!.

    There was a lot of rockabilly done around Springvale. Some of you may remember the Old Springvale Hotel ( no longer ) on the Princes Hwy intersection. Had rockabilly there every week in the 70`s. Went to see Johnny O`Keefe at the Southern Aurora Hotel Dandenong too. Funny you should mention all those pubs popular in the 70`s Fig Jam . I was probably one of the dancers doing the traditional style. Went the the Village Green , Sandown etc to see Old 55, Skyhooks etc. Some of those pubs were pretty wild in those days too. Don`t you just love it .....

  20. #40
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    UK
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    Re: Rockabilly Dancers Coming To Town

    Argghhh! just typed a whole post and it has gone..... oh well, here are the bopping vids......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy8TT-2ccTM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ZfMFaxIKU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIs9BOBINLM

    Main point - nobody does it the same and that's how it should be
    Don't Dig Me Daddy 'Cause I'm Real Gone.....

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