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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ferntree Gully
    Posts
    1,135

    Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    No doubt about it. Social dancing is best when the music comes from a live band. And we have the best live bands in the country.

    High level RockÂ’nÂ’Roll Dance competition dancing is something else. This is the State Championships. It is the VFL of RÂ’nÂ’R dancing. As with so many other things, Victoria does set the benchmark for Australia here too. The State Championships is to be approached very seriously and we respect the determination and effort of the dancers who put a considerable amount of work into their preparations.

    The trick with R’n’R Dance competition is to have just enough rules and regulations to maintain consistency. R’n’R is exciting and spontaneous and we never want to step on the “vibe of the thing”.

    When it comes to selecting songs for the Qualifying Heats and Championships there are defined time limits and tempo controls. We also aim to pick tunes that have a clear starting point and a definite end. As far as possible we do like to use music by local groups, when that is available and when there are tracks that meet the requirements.

    I am sure that our local bands are skilled and disciplined enough to come up with and stick to a suitable play list and to play in strict tempo, but seriously, it is not worth the hassle.

    When it comes to the Qualifying Heats and the State Championships the focus is on the dancing. It is cleaner, neater, less contestable and less controversial to use recorded music.

    On the night of the State Championships we do try to squeeze in some social dancing. Rockers cannot sit still for too long. But we have a full program of competitions to get through and that takes up the biggest part of the evening.
    Rob Ewart
    Victorian Rock'n'Roll Dance Assoc

    www.VRRDA.org.au

    It's your Association, get involved. Good ideas are always welcome.
    Make sure your R'n'R club or dance school is getting best value.

    .

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    284

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    Interesting post... But I wonder how Dancing with the Stars copes with a full live band. Irish Dancing Championships use a live band too. I wonder how Gene Kelly and others handled working with orchestras. Its ironic to think that recorded music is best for rocknroll when you consider its roots.

    These examples are highly regimental when it comes to tempo for obvious reasons.

    Maybe pre-recorded music is "convenient" because a couple can choose a song and practice with consistency. Its not viable to rehearse with a band I agree.

    While I respect and admire the skills of competition dancers, the true application of one's skill is on a dance floor in front of a band. Just like the true skill of a band is tested in front of an audience and not in the studio. No matter what the style is.

    Thumper
    Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans - J. W. Lennon

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Greenvale, Vic
    Posts
    927

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    Have to agree with Thumper here. Even at Wintersun at the finals at Seaguls, live bands are used for 'some' of the music. I know of one Melbourne band whose CD is used rather frequently for teaching at the dance schools, so if it's good enough to learn to, why not contest to in a final(& I'm sure the cd is used for that) so why not the live band?
    Or is it about cost?
    A Good Dance is worth the time it takes to get there.
    "Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!"
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,566

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    My view is that itÂ’s a VRRDA event and, at the end of the day, this organisation chooses how it runs its competitions and decides whether it will use live music or recorded ones. I can only hope that in the interest of best practice, as all organizations should strive to do, VRRDA in taking that line has adequately considered the views and wishes of its various stakeholders as well. If cost is also a major factor, as Cliver has alluded to in his post, then I believe the organization should be open enough to say so.

    RobE has given his reasons, and I assume he is also speaking on behalf of VRRDA here? He has argued fairly succinctly as to why it is better to have recorded music for R&R dance competitions. We can agree to disagree with RobE and the VRRDA. But I am one of those who think live music brings zest, vitality and spectacle to dancing and at the same time adding authenticity to re-create the feel and ambiance of the R&R era. Recorded music may be better suited to the efficient running of the event, for example, but is it necessarily better in terms of engendering competitorÂ’s dancing to a higher level? Or better in terms of testing the dancersÂ’ floor craft and technical skills relative to performing to live music? Do dancers naturally danced better to recorded music or is it because recorded music is easier to dance to as it eliminates spontaneity, unpredictability, subtlety and overcome the human element that can be associated with dancing to a live band performance?

    My question is thus - is recorded music really better than live music for dance competitions? How do we measure “better”? Apart from specific performances or dance routine competitions where, for example, a team of dancers practiced before hand and later danced to a pre-selected song, what hear say and empirical evidence is there to support it? Aren’t dance competitions supposed to be live and spontaneous thereby offering dancers the opportunity to showcase and test their dancing skills in a “live” environment? I could also ask the question - is recorded music really the option favoured by competition dancers? And supported by majority of dance judges? Or even the audience has voted with their feet for recorded music based on surveys taken? I think their views count just as much.

    There’s no doubt live music is still being used in competitions elsewhere in Australia and overseas. Cliver has indicated that much in his post re Wintersun. Cat also indicated that live bands have been used in past competitions. I have no doubt competitions in the 1930’s – 40’s Jitterbug era used live swing bands. Frankie Manning, the father of Swing/Lindy Hop dancing said the great Swing and Big Bands of the Savoy Ballroom era including legends like Count Basie and Duke Ellington etc played for dancers who took part in weekly dance competitions at the Savoy Ballroom which was also the birth place of the “Cats Corner” where elite swing dancers such as Frankie Manning, Shorty George (we still have a dance move today named after him!) and Whitey’s performance troupe practiced and showed off their floor craft. I am pretty sure the 1950’s R&R era similarly also used live music for their dance competitions.

    I truly wish live music can again be seen more frequently in dance competitions in Australia. I am not arguing that it is necessarily “better” (like I said before - how do we measure better?). But, in my humble opinion, I do believe it creates a better feel for the dance events for all concerned, and just maybe better test the skills of dancers as they dance live ……….We are after all trying to bring to life and re-create the R&R era, are we not?


    B) B) B)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    180

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    Just remember, recorded music is generally live bands in the studio. If you can only dance to a drum machine, boy have you got problems!!!

  6. #6

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    RnR is an exciting and spontaneous dance style.
    RnR dance competitions over the past ten years have slowly bred this out.
    The recorded music that is played allows the dancers to what time and tempo it will be.
    Now the competitors are dancing set routines which takes away any excitment.
    This I believe will not benefit the dancers with inprovement

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    197

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    Why not pic a dozen songs. and any band that wants to play must do these songs. I understand little hiccups do occour onstage but good bands never stop. So the dancers won't either.

    you could have a certain song for a certain dance. Like the Wanderer for the cowboy cha cha, etc...

    Dave
    www.bobkats.info

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    197

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    shane wrote:
    If the VRRDA want to run a dance comp,it,s up to them how they choose to run it!To me you need a level playing field.It is a DANCE COMP!The best way of doing it! Is to have a recorded song,that everyone dances too! NO COMPLAINTS about differant tempos.THE BAND likes LIKES!!!Sandy & John! That,s why they stuffed up! When they where playing for us.That Drum stick didn,t break,or that string!We didn,t win because the BAND didn,t like us.The only part of me you would seeeee at a DANCE COMP.....Would B the DUST when I was LEAVEN!!!! I don,t think even BOOM BOOM,S that brave !!!!If he thought about it!!!!!!!Na Rob use the recorded versions.To any BAND thats willing to give it a go!!!The best way of running a dance comp in my opinion is with RECORDED MUSIC! The people that are there are competing!They are thinking about their DANCE moves.If it was a BATTLE of the BANDS! What would YOU! be thinking about as a BAND member! WHAT YOU are playing!OR What the DANCERS are doing! I REST MY CASE! your honour Robe..........Shane BHR
    You really beleive WE would throw a spanner in the works as musicians? I want to see people dancing to my music. WHY have a Band anyway. Just get Joe floggs and his DJ Brother with middie files you don't ever need US again.

    Why is this thread in Muso's Rap???

    Dave

    www.bobkats.info

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    284

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    Dance competitions no matter what the style is all about the dancing and not the show the band puts on.

    The people on the dance floor at these events are dancing for a different reason to those who set out to go to a pub and see a band. When people are dancing at a pub, they quite often couldnt give a rats how good or bad they are, they just get on the floor and enjoy what the night has to offer.

    Dancers doing comps do care because every move they make, their appearance etc is under the microscope by judges and their peers during competition. So yes its "easier" for comps to use recorded music because the dancers and bands dont have the luxury of rehearsing with each other.

    Still though, having said that, a room with 300 dancers and an empty stage hardly compares to the electric atmosphere a good band and crowd creates does it?

    Thumper
    Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans - J. W. Lennon

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,074

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    Thumper! Thanks for your input to the discussion!The point l am trying to make is.....The VRRDA night is about THE DANCERS! NOT ABOUT THE BANDS!They are competing!In a DANCE ARENA.Not a Live MUSIC ARENA! I can see the differance why can,t others!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    284

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    Thats exactly right. Any band that plays at an ocassion like that must walk in knowing that in the first place.

    Thumper
    Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans - J. W. Lennon

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    197

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    shane wrote:
    Did l say anything about a DELIBERATE! MISTAKES!....Read it again BOBCATS!!!!!!As for Joe Floggs and his DJ Brother if you like em BOOK EM!!!I have no problems with DJ,S! They love music as much as you and i,and they have as much to contibute to the music scene,as we do.They ARE MUSICIANS and deserve the same respect!........Shane Connors......The Blackhill Ramblers.....Ph 9762 5894....
    Well Shane from TBHR Thanks for clearing that up for me. I better get a drum machine you do not need me anymore.

    Dave
    www.bobkats.info

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Merimbula NSW
    Posts
    466

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    RobE has put up a strong argument in favour of recorded music at dance competitions and rightly so if that is the way the VRRDA wants to keep it.

    As a matter of interest, has the membership of the VRRDA increased, or decreased over the last decadeÂ…Â…..I would think that if it has increased, then the formula must be rightÂ…Â…if it has decreased, then maybe some of what has been said on this thread could assist.

    The one answer I can provide on the issue, is that it is not a matter of costs, that the VRRDA has chosen not to go live with their competitions.

    What ever prevails, “Keep it Rockin” where possible, “Keep it Live”

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Australia
    Posts
    837

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    I knew I was gonna get my @ dragged in to this ....
    OK firstly I do have the nuts to comment on sensitive subjects as this one, the thought of any band deliberately screwing up because they favour a certain couple is outrageous.
    Shane mate Djs are not muso's sorry mate they are not!! but this is not about Dj's Vs Muso's.

    DJ's provide entertainment without interaction,exept for a couple that do a grouse job of it, I don't even mind them at our gigs, gives me a break ay?HAhahaha

    Seriously if the VRRDA wants discs great, and I hope that they have a good night of it too, I think we're being a little precious, let them have their dance comps, we'll get them next week at a different venue whats the difference?

    I have played at a dance comp and was told that this song has to be at this tempo and that tempo, my responce was do you have a chart and a live click track?, and the Chick kinda went whaa??Hahaha, your right Shane I'd be at the bar, goin gee check the legs out on that chick hahahahaa

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,074

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    You DA Man Franky!!!!!!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    432

    Re:Recorded Music Is Best For Comps

    I am with Frank and Shane on this one. I agree that dance comps are for the dancers, let them have the recorded music so nothing can interfere with their routines. The normal weekend dances with bands bashing out the tunes will do me (two left feet and cant dance for c--p) just fine. So everyone is really clear on this I much prefer listening to the live bands so this is not a shot at any bands and I love attending a dance at which DJ Flash is giving us the "in between" because he can pick a crowd and play the right music like no other....
    To me its simple - horses for courses.
    now where did I park that damn horse ???
    :laugh:

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